@hynek @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies Even in the best case, Rust is more expensive and difficult to maintain, not to mention "non-native" to the average customer here (who presumably knows enough Python to dip into helping out with maintenance if Ofek or Frost wanders off.

@hynek @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies And the difficulty with VC money here is that it can burn out *all* the other projects in the ecosystem simultaneously, creating a risk of monoculture, where previously, I think we can say that "monoculture" was the *least* of Python's packaging concerns.

@ubernostrum @glyph @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies a) that’s what people WANT. It’s emphatically not what _I_ want but talk to Python normies, look at the blog posts: they all want one tool to rule them all and consider the current state of having to choose bad.

b) you can’t fork Uber/Lyft, so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison. If uv were commercially-licensed I would get the argument, but not as long as it’s MIT/Apache.

@ubernostrum @glyph @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies (And to stress once more: this is different from Ruff which didn’t solve anything, but took what’s there’s and made it faster/more convenient. I’m not happy with that. But uv is solving a problem we as a community have proven for now decades aren’t capable to solve with the resources and focus we have.)

@hynek @glyph @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies I would have preferred that the money be sunk into something like PDM or whatever that’s written in Python and that was eager to adopt PEPs rather than something that’s in not-Python and from the people who brought us Ruff (which I dislike and avoid for several reasons, this among them).

PDM even has a Python installer!

@hynek @ubernostrum @glyph @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies Ruff definitely solved something for me. I never had time to learn how to configure and run a half dozen (or more) linters and static analyzers on my Python code and now I don't have to because all their functionality is in one tool... and it's far faster than all of them combined. When Ruff can be used to replace mypy (and be faster than mypy) I'll be happy to drop one more tool from the workflow.

@kevin @hynek @ubernostrum @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies while I don't love a monoculture, I cannot argue with the fact that *some* consolidation is necessary. the fact that part of my brain is occupied with knowledge of how to configure autoflake, black, and isort *in order* so that the output is stable is not a great comment on the state of the ecosystem, and ruff does address that inconsistency. even just having the *docs* in one place is helpful.

@kevin @ubernostrum @glyph @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies I think you’ve just described “more convenient”. ;)

@ubernostrum I would describe myself as extremely eager to adopt PEPs… I also participate in PEP discussions all the time! I’m not sure where that opinion comes from or why it’s coupled to being written in Rust either, but if I can do more let me know…

@charliermarsh read it the other way round: people make a selling point of uv’s early adoption of things (like lockfiles) but other tools in the space are also early adopters. And are often written in Python, which is more accessible to Python programmers than not-Python.

@hynek @ubernostrum @glyph @sethmlarson @freakboy3742 @jacob @sgillies

> but not as long as it’s MIT/Apache.

Haven't we seen this movie enough times (MongoDB, Elastic, Redis, Hashi) to recognize the VC playbook on license changes?

I know you said in another reply that you expect Astral will flame out and the community will need to fork uv, but I think it's more likely they'll do a license change first. This would also result in a fork, but Astral then keeps uv going as proprietary software.